SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The latest release of documents from the Epstein files is threatening Britain's ruling government. Revelations from the Department of Justice's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein have already made Prince Andrew the former Prince Andrew and have forced one-time ambassador to the U.S. Peter Mandelson to resign from Britain's House of Lords. Now the allegations against Mandelson are leading to calls for the resignation of Prime Minister Keir Starmer, including from some within his Labour Party. What is going on here, and why, at first glance, are the revelations leading to more consequences in the U.K. than the U.S.? We're going to talk about this with Edward Luce, chief U.S. commentator for the Financial Times. Welcome.
EDWARD LUCE: It's good to be with you, Scott.
DETROW: Let's start with that former British ambassador to the U.S., Peter Mandelson. Remind us what his role in politics and within the Labour Party was before these revelations.
LUCE: Well, he's been a sort of storied figure on the U.K. left for decades. He was the coarchitect with Tony Blair of Tony Blair's New Labour third-way politics, close ties with the Clintons. And so he's considered to be one of great figures of the British Labour Party, but he's also one of the most controversial figures of modern British politics because of his questionable ethics. Three times now, he's been fired.
DETROW: On the topic of questionable ethics, there's a few things that really jumped out and made headlines in this latest trove of files. What specifically led to his ouster from the House of Lords and this kind of escalating pressure on Starmer's government?
LUCE: So it turns out that in 2008, during the peak of the global financial crisis, Mandelson, who was then serving the British Labour government led by Gordon Brown, was in contact with Epstein and in fact passing on to Epstein privileged insider information from within Gordon Brown's government about a number of market-moving, market-sensitive things. So this is considered to be in breach of several laws, and one of the biggest political scandals in many years to have hit Britain.
DETROW: And how does that tie to Keir Starmer who, it's fair to say, was under tremendous pressure already - low in the public opinion polls. Is it fair to say his government was already kind of teetering on the edge before this?
LUCE: Keir Starmer's been in trouble for many, many months. His party's opinion poll is rating way below Nigel Farage's pro-MAGA Reform Party in the opinion polls. He's got a massive majority and yet seems to be going nowhere with it. And his appointment of Mandelson as Britain's ambassador in spite of knowing of at least some of Mandelson's former association with Jeffrey Epstein is just another stick with which to beat his government. It shows lack of judgment. It shows the sort of failure to take control that Starmer, with such a big majority, so recently had been promising to deliver. So it's potentially the end of his prime ministership.
DETROW: How quickly do you think that would come? As we talk Monday afternoon, you've had a couple high-profile Labour figures calling for him to resign, but a lot more people in his government sticking with him, at least for now. And then you mentioned Gordon Brown. I saw over the weekend he was taking several shots at Keir Starmer, which seemed unusual to me.
LUCE: Yes, he did. I mean, Gordon Brown is furious. He feels betrayed by Mandelson, and I think probably as concerned as anybody else in the broader Labour movement in Britain about a government that appears to be failing. So it's quite hard under the Labour Party's rules to remove a leader, a prime minister. Much easier for Conservatives to do it. If you remember Liz Truss, the famous 49-day premiership. But it looks like he's wobbling. And I should add that he lost over the weekend his chief strategist and chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney. He has gone, so he no longer has a strategist. There is blood in the water, as the cliche goes.
DETROW: Yeah. I want to zoom out after this, but I did want to get a quick update from you on the former Prince Andrew. I mean, this has been going on for so long. He's been disgraced and disgraced again so many times that a movie has been made, produced and released about his disgrace tied to Jeffrey Epstein. And yet there was still more way to be marginalized over the past week, wasn't there?
LUCE: Yes. I mean, Andrew has become a sort of national sort of symbol of shame and embarrassment and a bit of a joke. People refer to him as the Andrew formerly known as prince. The recent Department of Justice, you know, 3-million-page release, Andrew's name is all over that. And so even though he's been deprived of his title and his, you know, royal standing and, indeed, the money that comes with it and the property that comes with it, it looks like he's got further to fall.
DETROW: You've paid attention to this in the U.S. You've paid attention to this in the U.K. Why do you think it is that there seem to be more consequences, right now at least, in Britain than in America?
LUCE: I think the big difference is probably the fact that the president, Donald Trump, you know, seems to have no interest in further revelations or inquiries related to the Epstein files. Keir Starmer has been forced, in order to try and defend his job, into supporting strong London Metropolitan Police criminal investigations into Peter Mandelson for his own political survival, whereas I think it appears that President Trump's instincts are quite the opposite - that he wants to move on, turn the page from the Epstein scandal, allegedly, according to Trump's critics, for his own political survival. So their instincts are divergent.
DETROW: That's Edward Luce, U.S. national editor and columnist for the Financial Times. Thanks for talking about this with us.
LUCE: It's a pleasure. Thank you.
DETROW: And just to note, Peter Mandelson has not responded to NPR's inquiries and has not commented on the apparent emails between him and Jeffrey Epstein. Keir Starmer says he regrets appointing Mandelson as ambassador, but he's not planning to step down. And the former Prince Andrew consistently denies all wrongdoing. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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