LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on Zelenskyy's speech at Davos, we're joined by former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor. Ambassador, good morning and thank you for joining us.
WILLIAM TAYLOR: Morning, Leila. Good to be here.
FADEL: So that was quite a speech. What did you make of both the tone and the substance?
TAYLOR: Leila, I think you're hearing President Zelenskyy express his interest - strong interest, desire, hope - for a strong Europe, a very strong Europe that can stand on its own, that can defend itself. Zelenskyy needs that. Zelenskyy needs the Europeans to stand up and lead with their own capabilities, their own military industrial, because they can't count on the Americans forever. And this Greenland episode has demonstrated that.
FADEL: At one point, Zelenskyy essentially challenged Europe to be more like Trump. He said if Trump can seize oil from Russia's shadow fleet connected to Venezuela, why can't Europe? How valid is that critique?
TAYLOR: It's a great critique. And I think the French did that yesterday. The French have now boarded one of these shadow fleet ships, like the Americans did, like we did in the Caribbean. So we know that we can do it. We know that the French can do it. Zelenskyy made the point that they can take out ships with their homegrown missiles, ground-to-sea missiles. And the Ukrainians have done exactly that in the Black Sea.
FADEL: How realistic is the proposal for Europe to stand up a centralized armed force in order to rely less on the U.S.?
TAYLOR: It's a dream. But it's a longtime dream, and it's something that has to start. It has started. The Europeans have demonstrated that they can put funds into this. They've committed. For all kinds of reasons, in particular the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Europeans have committed to spend a lot more money on their own defense. A European pillar within NATO can be a real strength for the whole alliance.
FADEL: We've already seen how Trump responded to Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's, which was quite critical of the United States and the U.S.-led global order. What do you expect the reaction to Zelenskyy's speech to be from the president of the United States?
TAYLOR: So I imagine that President Trump listened carefully. They obviously just had a conversation. Trump and Zelenskyy had a conversation just before Zelenskyy's speech. And there's a commonality there, Leila. There's a commonality of what President Trump has been saying and what President Zelenskyy just saying. That is, Europeans need to step up. Do more. Zelenskyy would say, do more for Ukraine. And President Trump would say, do more so that we, the Americans, can do less. But there's a common direction in that.
FADEL: Where does that leave the U.S., though? If U.S. allies are looking for alternatives and say they can't depend on the U.S. in times of crisis, where does that leave the U.S. in this global order and as a leader?
TAYLOR: The United States has always counted on and depended on and benefited from allies and the alliance, in particular the NATO alliance. And if we don't have that, it will be at our cost. That will hurt us. We will be less able to influence events, less able to provide for overall security, including our security. But it is important that the Europeans step up, build up their capabilities. So in an alliance within - again, within NATO to make the overall alliance stronger, including the United States, even if the United States is not playing as major role as it did.
FADEL: There are supposed to be another round of talks between the U.S., Ukraine and Russia. Is there any indication it will go any differently than all the talks that came before?
TAYLOR: No indication yet. No indication yet, Leila. The Russian delegation is made up of military people. The Ukrainian delegation is serious, made up of their senior political folks under Zelenskyy. And just yesterday, the Russians came out and said, our position hadn't changed - we're ready to make a deal but only on our terms.
FADEL: William Taylor served as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009. Thank you for your time.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Leila.
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